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The Week in Art
podcast

Arthur Jafa and Mark Leckey, Cecilia Alemani on SITE Santa Fe, Trisha Brown and Robert Rauschenberg—podcast

We speak to Jafa and Leckey about their forthcoming London exhibition, ask Alemani about the US-based biennial—whose title this year was inspired by a film by Godfrey Reggio—and zone in on a landmark dance collaboration

Hosted by Ben Luke. Produced by David Clack, Alexander Morrison and Philippa Kelly
27 June 2025
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Mark Leckey (left) and Arthur Jafa are showing together at Conditions in Croydon, south London Portrait of Mark Leckey. Photo by Jeremy Liebman, courtesy of the artist and Gladstone. Portrait of Arthur Jafa. Courtesy of the artist, Gladstone, and Sprüth Magers.

Mark Leckey (left) and Arthur Jafa are showing together at Conditions in Croydon, south London Portrait of Mark Leckey. Photo by Jeremy Liebman, courtesy of the artist and Gladstone. Portrait of Arthur Jafa. Courtesy of the artist, Gladstone, and Sprüth Magers.

An exhibition opens this weekend at Conditions, the low-cost studio programme for artists in Croydon, on the outskirts of south London, featuring two of the great works of art of recent decades: Mark Leckey’s Fiorucci Made Me Hardcore (1999) and Arthur Jafa’s Love is the Message, the Message is Death (2016). Ben Luke talks to Leckey and Jafa about showing together and the affinities and contrasts in these two contemporary masterpieces.

Agnes Pelton, Awakening (1943)

New Mexico Museum of Art

The 12th Site Sante Fe International exhibition also opens on Friday, and Ben speaks to Cecilia Alemani, the artistic director of the biennial, about the show, which is called Once Within a Time.

Trisha Brown Dance Company’s performance of Glacial Decoy at Children's Theater, Minneapolis on 7 May 1979

Photo: Boyd Hagen for Walker Art Center

And this episode’s Work of the Week is Glacial Decoy, the 1979 collaboration between the choreographer Trisha Brown and the artist Robert Rauschenberg. This landmark work is the subject of a new exhibition at the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis, and its curator, Brandon Eng, tells us more.

  • ARTHUR JAFA / MARK LECKEY: HARDCORE / LOVE, Conditions, 28 June-10 August. You can find out more about Conditions at conditions.studio
  • Luke’s conversations with Jafa and Leckey on the A brush with.. podcast are available wherever you’re listening. And those interviews feature alongside 23 others from the A brush with… series in my new book. Called What is Art For? Contemporary artists on their influences, inspirations and disciplines, it is published by HENI and released on 2 September in the US, priced $39.95 and 4 September in the UK, priced £29.95
  • Site Sante Fe International: Once Within a Time, 27 June-12 January 2026
  • Trisha Brown and Robert Rauschenberg: Glacial Decoy, Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, US, until 24 May 2026
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